Benson: Mr. Kerry, why did your 2004 campaign suck so OWOWOWOWOW
Kerry: Thanks officers.

A portion of the incident captured on video is available here. I would have to see more of the video from the event to make a judgement. The clip posted above shows only the student asking the question right before the arrest. Were other students allowed without incident to go beyond their alloted time to ask questions? How much time did he consume, two, three minutes, or fifteen or twenty? This incident also brings to mind something that's troubled me for more than a decade now and that's the increased militarization of the police.

Just from looking a second video, there seems to be more to the story. There's also an eyewitness account via, I'm sorry to say, Michelle Malkin:

However, while Senator Kerry was responding to a student’s question, all of a sudden Meyer rushed to the microphone with cops in pursuit. At that point no one knew what was going on. Could he have a gun, a bomb? Immediately, Meyer began yelling into the microphone that he had been waiting in line forever and that Senator Kerry should “spend time to answer everyone’s questions!” Senator Kerry tried to calm the student down by telling him that he would “stay here as long as it takes to get the questions answered.” The police approached Meyer who began taunting them by saying “what! are you going to taser me? are you going to arrest me?!” The police grabbed Meyer, but Senator Kerry asked the police to let him go and that he would answer his question. Senator Kerry finished answering the other student’s question and then proceeded with Meyer. (*This entire scene is not in any video I can find so far. This is why 2 cops are seen right behind Meyer at the start of some videos*).

Without getting into a discussion of tasering (I disapprove of it), it seems -- from the tape and from the account above -- that Kerry tried hard to defuse the situation.

Oooh, are href's allowed in comments again? Cool. Here is a bit more video that shows the guy's entire long-winded question and blowing off the moderator, and the text claims that what isn't shown is the guy snagging the mic from someone else. Frankly, the guy was asking for a good tasering. He was right to protest his ejection, but there comes a point when you have to realize you've lost the battle (it usually involves a police officer's knee in your back) and concede that front until you get processed and can take your case to the media. Acting like you're tweaking and fighting to get up is the less prudent move.

However, I think the more telling aspect of the video is how lamely Kerry watched the episode transpire. He had a number of good moments before things got out of hand to maybe say something like, "Officers, that's not necessary -- sir, I'll answer your question, but then I think they'd like you to leave." Making a joke about the guy pinned to the floor was about as funny as "if you don't study you get stuck in Iraq." Why did he lose again?

This is one of the most disturbing videos I've seen in a long time. This is police brutality.

First of all 6 cops against 1 nonviolent person and they have to use a Taser after he's already on the ground?

And they charge him for inciting a riot? They're the ones who incited a riot?

BEZERKO ASKED:

Were other students allowed without incident to go beyond their alloted time to ask questions? How much time did he consume, two, three minutes, or fifteen or twenty?

**
While these are interesting questions, I don't think it makes a difference whether he went over by 2 minutes or 20 to say that the police response was inappropriate. The response was an atrocity.

I hope to follow the coverage of this in the national media. If I find it lacking, APN may pick up the slack :)

Man, there are videos all over the place on this. here, here, and here are a few. I agree with Shelby. I think there's a difference between silencing dissent or opposition and dissrupting an open public forum. He had a right to protest his ejection, but the officers clearly made the decision, for whatever reason (right or wrong), to arrest him. Threats to democracy and freedom can come from either side of the mike. It's the police officer's duty to protect the open two-way communication between political leaders, in this case John Kerry, and the members of the audience who came to hear him speak and ask him questions. The guy was wrong, however, when he got physical with the officers. The guy could have been a Republican plant, then again, maybe he was genuinely concerned, who knows. He could have continued his verbal protest, while being subdued, then after he was processed, like Shelby said, he could take his case to the media.

I would have tasered him.

Man, there are videos all over the place on this. here, here, and here are a few. I agree with Shelby. I think there's a difference between silencing dissent or opposition and dissrupting an open public forum. He had a right to protest his ejection, but the officers clearly made the decision, for whatever reason (right or wrong), to arrest him. Threats to democracy and freedom can come from either side of the mike. It's the police officer's duty to protect the open two-way communication between political leaders, in this case John Kerry, and the members of the audience who came to hear him speak and ask him questions. The guy was wrong, however, when he got physical with the officers. The guy could have been a Republican plant, then again, maybe he was genuinely concerned, who knows. He could have continued his verbal protest, while being subdued, then after he was processed, like Shelby said, he could take his case to the media.

Matthew, he was not exactly "nonviolent" for quite a while before they zapped his ass. Getting tasered, or even handcuffed, was a result of him trying to break away from officers who were very casually escorting him out. Another person at the event posted a video along with the description of what transpired: "I couldnt get to my camera in time to record his entrance, but this guy basically comes running in with 4 or 5 cops in tow and says he has been running around trying to get in to ask a question and the cops are going to arrest him for it. they almost do it then but Sen. Kerry says he will answer it. he then answers a previous question someone else asked (i cut that part out because it isnt important to this video) then the guy asks his questions and when he is done all hell breaks lose."

So, sounds like he had already given the cops plenty of reason to be wary of him.

Grift posted some more video on LiveLeak of the post-tasering events that show this kid was clearly off his meds.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ec_1190097717

Around 2:13 he says, "People know I'm here. You can't just kill me." And then later, "They're giving me to the government. They're gonna try and kill me."

Crrrrazy.

I've finally had a chance to look at the various video records of this event and I am shocked by the brutality and inappropriate behavior of the police.

Was the guy out of control. Not so much, UNTIL the cops got him.

Shelby makes a good point about Senator Kerry's lack of gumption (oh, big surprise there!)

His questions, while random, were valid, albiet a little loopy. But, this is a college campus, where we expect an open environment of exchange of ideas. Isn't that why Senator Kerry was there in the first place?

Shame on those officers.

Gotta disagree Catherine. The cops acted in a reasonable manner and their level of force only escalated as his resistance and erratic behavior continued.

He was only tasered after trying to break away three times. It's apparent he could have been a disturbed individual in close proximity to a highly visible political leader. He was only manhandled after it was apparent there was no other way to remove him.

Not because of his ideas or his questions.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, Grift. I think Mr Meyer reacted to the way he was being treated, which was inappropriate from the get-go. But, ya know, I grew up on a very lively, militant-laden college campus so my views are likely colored by that experience.

What was inappropriate about how he was handled?

He rambled on and was cut off. He was asked to leave and when he refused, police attempted to escort him out. At that point, he jerked away and began flailing around.

And do you know why all those cops were standing around behind him while he was pontificating? Why for the tremendous police presence for this font of youthful rebellion? To quell difficult questions?

According to eyewitnesses just prior the tape beginning he had darted up to the mic ahead of other people. The cops don't take too kindly to people making sudden movements like running towards a stage where a security risk is speaking. In other words, they already were aware that he had the capability to act erratically.

The person who acted inapprpriately here was douchbag Meyer.

It's a little scary nowadays when college kids go off their meds. After VATech, who knows what was going through the officers' heads.

What all this really points to is the need for more engineering research into nonlethal weapons and restraints. I for one envision something like a giant Silly String gun. If they can make giant canisters of pepper spray in pistol form, they can make giant guns of silly string.

Or marshmallow fluff.

And then Andrew Meyer would be the ultimate fluffernutter.

I think it's helpful to think about what the appropriate police response would have been in the pre-taser world. Would it have been appropriate to club the guy in the head with a baton, or just tackle him? Would they have shot him? I think necessary force-wise tasering comes somewhere in between a severe beat-down with a baton and shooting.

The thing that really bothers me about these tasering incidents is that increasingly police seem to be using tasers as shortcuts, where perhaps less violent or less dangerous methods could work just as well. Particularly in that UCLA incident several months ago, it seemed the police were using the tasers as "behavioral compliance inducement" rather to subdue violent behavior. I don't think I'm paranoid if I say that it makes me nervous for a future in which the police think nothing of using tasers as cattle-prods on a surly population.

Actually in the pre-taser world the response would have probably been a choke hold.

And the UCLA incident was apples to this guy's orange.

More tasers in the news: http://news.yahoo.com/s/wkmg/20070919/lo_wkmg/14147512

Ridiculous, although the students actions are very innaproriate and rude to Mr. Kerry, the police are way out of line. This could have been resolved much easier, one has to wonder what else could have happened.. if students got closer would they have tazed as well? The police here are acting like SS soldiers. These oficers should be suspended without pay for their actions. As for the student, he acted like an idiot and deserves the charges, but not the brutality. It is within his rights to yell and scream and act like an idiot, it will get him in trouble, but that is his rights.

The student, Andrew Meyer spoke for exactly 1 minute and 30 seconds including verbal interruptions by the pigs.

Total 80 some odd seconds to contextualize and ask 3 distinct questions seems pretty concise to me so that had nothing to do with it and I believe is only brought up in sad attempts to blame the victim here.

Which brings up another interesting question. Even if he'd went on for 10 minutes, would that have justified the treatment from police?

And this word 'justified'. I see it used a lot in the overall discussion of this issue (not just this site but many others).

I'm saddened and frightened by the amount of people that seem to feel this kind of brutalization is ever justified by the state. I would characterize that as a statist if not fascist psychological mindset, the person that believes the pigs are ever justified to do this to us.

Last point is the most important thing for me. I've watched this video every morning since it hit the net. I'm using it as a daily reminder of something critically important to me.

If nothing else, this incident highlights how completely and pathetically impotent the psychological framework of the typical mainstream politically minded person in this country is. Especially liberals.

If you have viewed a video in which the audience is visible then you have seen how incredibly uncomfortable they were simply by Meyer asking confrontational questions. Just words. More frightening is the utter and almost complete lack of protest except from a few (probably his friends/acquaintances) to him being removed handcuffed and electroshocked by the pigs. The pigs are obviously out of line but hey, they are doing what pigs are trained to do.

Hands down the most frightening and disgusting thing by far in this story is the behavior of the Good German crowd sitting there watching all of this happen to the guy.

That's the real story in my opinion, the impotence, cowardice and overall lack of moral rebuke and outrage by that nauseating crowd of Good Germans whom we can probably assume were largely Democrats.

Pigs? Guess the I.B.P.O is one of the few unions not welcome at the table, eh?

The relevant points are obvious and, of course, ignored.

I only threw in the pigs so that you'd have something you could chime in on.

Good job then! Being offensive is always an excellent tactic at bringing me out.

Oh and you as well ignored my relevant point. But hey! We are having an enlightened discourse here! Why should we stick to the points when flinging crap is so much more fun!

Sigh. You could have addressed the relevant points of
1. The shockingly complacent and compliant citizenry
2. The police brutality

You can still address them if you want to.

I'm sorry your feelings were hurt.

I've already addressed them multiple times on this very site. Which you would have known if you had taken the time to actually read anything before spewing your screed.

And sorry. But you calling me names doesn't hurt my feelings. But if the need for you to feel that kind of empowerment gets you through the say, don't let me get in the way.

Thank you, Iggy. You expressed well the additional concerns I had about the event. I too was troubled by the complete lack of interest by the audience.

But, all of that is to be expected these days.

I believe that the officers escalated this incident well beyond any necessary level. As soon as Mr Meyer began rambling (though at 90 seconds I hardly call it rambling) someone should have said something from the stage (John Kerry or a moderator, etc). But, instead the officers took his arm.

Frankly, it's very easy for me to imagine an incident like that occurring at any number of meetings, forums, etc. I regularly attend. It's why I prefer to have questions written on cards rather than handing an open mike to someone.

I stick by my original stand - they escalated too fast and too dramatically.

You implied your feelings were hurt by alerting me to the offensive nature of the word pigs. I didn't call you a pig so I'm not sure about this new offense, 'calling me names'. But I'll apologize for that as well.

Do you (or does anyone else) mind directing me to your comments regarding the complacency and compliance of the audience as Meyer was electroshocked. That was my main point, as I stated. And you said that you've addressed it multiple times but I can't find it. My apologies, yet again, if I missed it.

It is interesting how much of the conversation centers on Meyer. The role of the pigs and the validity of their action seems to be largely taken on faith. This is most troubling to me. In this case as well as the Lennox Yearwood case, which sadly but not surprisingly, got much less attention than this incident.

Good German crowd?

Wait, am I reading this right? We're blaming the crowd now for not doing anything?

Wow, just when I thought the discussion could not degenerate any more...

Fine. I'll address your point.

I think the audience intervening as you and others have suggested would have led to a catastrophic escalation of the violence which would have been tragic.

And in case it wasn't clear, what I found offensive was your prejorative "pigs" in reference to police officers.

My feeligns weren't hurt. But my sensibilities certainly were offended.

Now would you mind addressing my point? Would the International Brotherhood of Police Officers be welcome at your political table or would you simply serve pork?

To be clear Sara Wara, what I was saying is that one person was being accosted by six people and electrocuted. I would not stand by and watch that happen.

Especially being that the alleged crime was directing unpopular questions toward a public servant.

Meyer DID NOT go over his time.
He did not use profane language or personally insult the speaker.

I think it is imperative to ask why the crowd, considering the context of the beat down and electroshock, was so compliant and unconcerned. Or if not to ask why, to at least point it out.

Clearly, we all view our role as part of a community in much different ways.

I would like to think that if I had been in the audience on Monday I would have done something to keep the officers from escalating the incident.

My first impulse would have been to call on John Kerry or a moderator to step in. I do believe it could have averted the catastrophic escalation that occurred.

Did you watch your video with the sound on Iggy? Multiple members of the audience screamed, gasped or implored the officers to stop.

If you are suggesting they should have physically intervened, then you are suggesting they start a riot. That would be incredibly stupid and dangerous and could have gotten a hell of a lot more people than just Andrew Meyer hurt or worse.

"Especially being that the alleged crime was directing unpopular questions toward a public servant."

Are you saying that's the reason why he was tasered? Because he asked unpopular questions?

Also, arguably he both insulted the speaker and used profane language. Depends on if you consider "blowjob" profane and if you think suggesting someone conspired to give the election to Bush because they were once in Skull & Bones together is an insult. I could make the argument, though I doubt Kerry cared all that much. He's heard worse.

Thanks for replying grift. Again, sorry if I missed your past multiple addresses of the issue.

You mentioned escalation and tragedy. I agree with both sentiments. However, both are already applicable and would not be any kind of addition as your comments imply.

The pigs escalated the situation. They made a rhetorical situation physically violent. There is video evidence so let us not waste time debating what the video makes clear.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=giZspLXXBPs

As for tragedy, I think Andrew Meyer being electroshocked for asking unwanted questions of a US Senator is tragic.

To conclude, the crowd should have intervened. We cannot assist the state by taking on the flawed logic that violent escalation of a situation cannot be met with counter-violence. Why not?

And this is abstract so plz address the principle and forgive me for the analogy itself but would you use this same logic if you were witnessing violent sexual assault? Counter-violence would indeed escalate the situation temporarily and that situation would also be tragic.

Are those still legitimate reasons not to help?

Or is this line of logic only applicable to dissenting political view?

Edited to add that I welcome any group that supports popular positions and struggles of the working class. So often the police, by definition, align themselves against these types of things and so exclude themselves. But I would not hinder, in fact I would welcome law officers to stand in solidarity with working people.

Jen B.,
This is a trick. :D
You are asking me specifically about one step in a series of escalating events. He was removed because of his questions. Again, he did not go over time. The violent removal and his completely just protestation of it, led to the electroshock.

Rhetorical gymnastics aside, he wasn't shocked directly due to the questions. No. But we only need ask, 'if he had spent 90 seconds extolling Kerry's great Senatorial record and patriotism, would he have ended up on the ground being tased?

To ask that question is to answer it.

So yes, his unpopular questions led directly to police violence and his being shocked.

OK if you are willing to admit that you would ask, nay EXPECT, bystanders to risk serious injury in order to stop someone from being tasered when all he had to do was stop resisting arrest...that pretty much tells me everything I need to know.

The implication of your comment is that the police had to shock him to arrest him. You say that he could have prevented himself from being shocked by allowing himself to be arrested.

1. 6 cops were on top of him and that he was face down on the ground when he was shocked.

2. Was their just cause for him to be arrested in the first place (potentially negating your entire premise that he should have allowed arrest)?

Arresting citizens for purposes of controlling speech is something I would risk bodily harm to prevent. Also, tasing has killed people. This is common knowledge.

So would I expect bystanders to intervene, possibly risking injury to themselves, to prevent someone from being injured or possibly killed by way of electroshock for voicing a politically unpopular opinion?

Catherine said it earlier, this situation is highlighting how we "view our role as part of a community in much different ways".

I would sit by and watch that no sooner than I would watch a rape by five 300 lb guys. I would likely get my ass handed to me in either situation. But what the heck else would there be to do?

Watch?

You know it's funny, I actually don't think that tasering him was necessary to subdue him. But once you're on the ground with a taser in your face, if you continue to pull your arm free and resist the officers' attempts to handcuff you, you pretty much know what's coming next. So yes, I think Andrew Meyer was in a better position to prevent himself from being tased than the people who were in that auditorium with him who you accuse of sitting by and doing nothing.

I'm going to continue to ignore your attempts to analogize this to a rape because it's just flat ridiculous.

I don't disagree with Catherine's assertion that perhaps someone in the crowd could have appealed to Kerry or event organizers to stop the tasing. But that is a far different cry from suggesting that the crowd physically intervene, which is so irresponsible that I just can't believe anyone would continue to make that argument.

I'm glad we agree that it wasn't necessary for the pigs to shock that kid.

I should not be surprised who's drinking the "he was tasered for asking questions" Kool-Aid. Iggy, one of the things you've ignored in Grift's previous comments (and mine) is that prior to the video events, this guy had already rushed in and behaved disruptively, which is why the POLICE OFFICERS were paying special attention to him in the first place.

Do you have different tinfoil hats for different outfits, or just the same one every day for maximum effectiveness?

I also like how you happily use "pigs" to describe in blanket fashion those charged with maintaining our safety from when you're one of the first people to pipe up when others use an offensive word.

We agree it was not necessary. I disagree that it was outside the realm of options available to the police officers in their professional snap judgment, as they attempted to subdue a student who was combative and resistant.

Well, I'll take the common ground that we have, Sara Wara. :D

As for you Shelby, I hope you don't mind if I decline crawling down into the gutter of personal attacks ur calling from. See ya in another thread, maybe.

Pigs piggity pig-pig-pig! Good German pig, ja? Pig Daddy from the Fatherland. You like the pig, you statist fascist you is. Pigs no good for nothing, piggy-pigs bad.

Let's get rid of all the pigs. Then we can just take advantage of Georgia's awesome new gun law and shoot all the crackheads ourselves.

Oops, did I say crackhead? That was insensitive and generalizing of me. Some of us might have crackhead relatives. Just like some of us might have pig relatives.