’nuff said
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26 responses to “’nuff said”
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the reason it is BS and those people are wrong is because he’s run for POTUS twice and never been nominated (hell, how could he be better than one of the candidates he lost to). He also hasn’t been able to raise hundreds of millions of dollars, pack out arenas everywhere he goes, you know, marks of a bad candidate. I know you don’t like Obama but the fact of the matter is, by every metric of what makes a great candidate, Obama has it in spades. Seriously, i don’t get why you dislike him. he isn’t progressive (in fact he’s now more centrist than before), he’s showering love into the South, conservative on social issues etc. I don’t get where the hate comes from.
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I had no idea that Medium Lobster now had his own column, albeit across the pond. Natch. After the Blog: fafblog.blogspot.com
For the record I mostly like Biden. He’s a well known commodity to the nation & the media, and that’s a powerful advantage in any campaign. Still, he’s got a bunch of unfortunate votes due to his being from Del, where so many Big corporations are incorporated. Hence he carried water for the Excreable 2005 Bankruptcy bill that’s making all matters financial for everyone worse. Including all the industries that fought hard for it for a decade or more; the Credit card issuers & banks.
That said, as David Sirota reminds us, the guy’s a moderate progressive. So of the people being actively vetted for the VP, he was probably the best of the lot. So I’m at Peace with it.
But let’s turn this whole thing around. When the Bush cabinet meets, who’s the smartest MoFo in the room? Yeah, the other known drunk (DUI) itchy trigger fingered drop out: Cheney!
Just saying… Cheers, JMP
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Definitely time for a comic interlude. This guy seems to have an excellent grasp on the whole VP thing:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/21/uselections2008.barackobama
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Catherine, I got a huge kick out of it… don’t mind the comments.
Sounds like some of them although they said they didn’t care were kind of hoping for someone or some thing else.
I still want the button.
Speaking of, can we start making them now that we have a VP?
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Damn, y’all are tough on a girl.
I saw the graphic, found it to reflect the way I was feeling. No one is suggesting that it should be overall campaign strategy.
I’m just sayin’ – Obma/Biden likely to be much smarter than McCain/?
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If he had chosen Samuel L. Jackson they could have gotten matching wallets saying “smart motherfucker” on them. McCain would be in single digits and Samuel L. would bust a cap in his ass if he tried anything.
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Seriously? I am not suggesting the guy is not smart. Just that if we go for the smartest guys in the room thing they will tear us apart with it.
@ Shelby: I did not for a minute suggest he was a “half-wit”. Re: plagiarism. If we make the argument that our guy is better because of his intelligence, then they have the opportunity to bring up the plagiarism – as in, if he’s so smart, why did he cheat? I am not making the argument, I am just suggesting that by us opening the door, they will walk through it with that. [there is other bullshit there too they can use, the Kinnock stuff and the fact he said he graduated in the top half of his law school class when he was in the bottom 10%. I don’t care about this, I am just making the point that it is a claim easily swiftboated]
I brought up my degree because you suggested that Biden’s academics could not be questioned by me anyone until “after you elucidate your superior academic credentials”. If anything that is another argument, like mine was, that academic credentials are not everything, as he has been an effective leader for nearly 40 years in the Senate and you don’t even know who I am.
I was not arguing he was not equipped or was not smart. JM Prince, my point is yours, that the academic argument is not supremely important, and above that, not likely to help us get votes. I am suggesting we not use the academic argument, not just because there is not a strong correlation between grand degrees and effectiveness, but because it hurts our ticket.
My overall point is that you cannot go with the, we have the two smartest guys ticket. It does not do well, because it puts us in an arena with arguments that are weaker for drawing votes. We will get torn apart with it. Thought we could have an open and frank discussion about whether that was a good strategy or not. Apparently I struck a nerve. Look, Obama is doing okay and I think this pick will insulate him from having to attack and give him some defense of foreign policy. It will not however, give him a big bump in the polls. That’s fine, but we, on the democratic side, cannot take this “smartest guys in the room” meme very far outside the blogosphere. People do not like it and it is easy to poke holes in. We have been giving McCain stuff on a silver platter ever since Berlin and it shows. We have to fucking stop doing that.
Also, I think if he had picked Will Smith we’d be up by 11.
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And BTW, you want the ‘experience spectrum’ reversed on a presidential ticket? Then go back and forth on whether a grad of Southwest Texas State Teachers’ College (LBJ) was smarter than JFK (Harvard). LBJ clearly had much more experience in that pairing, (‘Master of the Senate’) and he was probably just as smart. Certainly not as polished. And he too, like Nixon before him (1960 recall) came to resent the clique ‘Harvard & Eastern effete elites’ (that included RFK too). And ALL of these Prez’s were Veterans recall.
Cheers, JMP
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Seriously what rock have you folks been under for the last, oh 40+ years? I’m totally with Jen on this one too.
But the question is a much larger one and dates to the Nixonian (&later General Repug’s) ‘anti-intellectualism’ of ALL of his campaigns, starting in the late 1950’s. Against the ‘effete intellectual snobs and their eastern pedigree degrees’. Against the Great Adlai Stevenson in ’52 & ’56. Nixon even used it against JFK, in fact hated ‘their snobbish Harvard crew’ till the end of his days. Kevin Phillips Invented the much vaunted & highly effective Southern strategy to blunt and then counter this appeal to ‘expertise & learning’ for oh, the 30-40 years beyond 1968 & Nixon’s reelection in 1972.
So say it with me now: Schools. School rankings. How you did in those schools. Are & have been rendered largely Irrelevant for much of modern political history. Certainly on a national basis, and certainly in the South.
You know what matters here in Ga.? If your school played UGA, and how they fared at it. That’s it. That’s most of the extent to which I’ve ever heard higher ed ever mentioned in the context of ANY campaign.
So MoS? If you’re ever running for anything in Ga., make certain that your school A.) Has a Football team. (That’s essential). And B.) Said Football team plays either Ga. or Tech, and has a pretty good or respectable record against them. Failing this, another nearby SEC team or one of the old SW conference contenders. Literally Nothing else matters. Not the relative size of the library. Not their excellent Art Dept. Or their decent Dental or Medical school (much, we’re talking Undergrad here mostly). Not the number or percentage of grads or graduation rate. Not the number of PhD’s produced. How the football team did. It’s the same all over the South.
So yeah Biden only went to Syracuse. A decent sized football & B-Ball powerhouse in the NE. And he graduated at the bottom of his class. So did McSame. BTW. He nearly flunked out Annapolis for many reasons. Ditto for Bush, Jr. Ditto for Reagan too. Beginning to see a pattern here? Quick! Where did Nixon go to college? How about Reagan? Ford? Cheney? ALL of them made middling grades in mostly piddling or locally respected small colleges. (Except Ford, UofM) And yet they ran the nation.
So please. Take pride in accomplishments, not where your school is ranked in some mythical academic wonder chart of Newsweek’s collective snobbish farts.
Yeah, Harvard or Yale may still have football teams, but the regular runts of the SEC, Vandy, would run all over them if they’re ever paired together. That’s what I’m talking about here!
Cheers & Good Luck! JMP
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MOTS, that’s a non-answer, but God forbid we poke holes in your cloak of anonymity. Maybe settling for Syracuse had something to do with the fact that Biden was kind of a screw-up in college and was more concerned with things like meeting girls like Neilia than studying. Yep, he must be a half-wit. Fancy law degrees are clearly the only certificate of merit around here.
Additionally, what do you mean by “this is where the plagiarism comes up?” Make points, not feints, counsel.
They taught you to read books in that dare-not-be-named law school, yes? Try Biden’s autobiography, it ain’t got too many big words in it.
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Re: Lawyers
There are some serious dumb fucks who graduated from top notch law schools. There are also some brilliant folks who went to so-so law schools for a variety reasons (sometimes economic) and didn’t do so well because law school is – for the most part – a vapid existence that tries to turn some folks into something they’re not.
That is all.
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And of course, certainly, it depends on the room. If the room is the United States Senate, then I think you have a pretty strong argument.
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Glad to know that the only way to judge how bright someone is depends on the school they attended and their class rank.
And some wonder why our party reeks of elitism.
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Also, of Biden, Bayh, and Kaine, I think Biden would be the best guy to attack the republican ticket allowing Obama to remain clean.
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Shelby,
I am not suggesting that Biden is not smart or unqualified. He is bright enough, but not amazingly so. But seriously, Syracuse? 76th out of 85 in his class? That’s not even a good school. But anyway, my point is we can’t attempt a brilliant versus dumb thing here partly because this is one of the areas where Biden is weak. He does not possess serious academic credentials. (And since you asked, my alma mater is about two tiers above where Syracuse lies.) Additionally, this is where the plagiarism comes up. Now he is a magnificent Senator and absolutely one of best people on policy ever. In terms of electability, maybe there are some better, but in terms of actually holding the office, I think he was the best possible choice.
The point you make regarding Yale and Bush is sound by itself, but my criticism is that the claim made in the box above is too easily attacked and opens the door into an arena where we lose with the American public.
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Oh, amen to that then. Yeah, the American people apparently also want to Drill Here Drill Now b/c they think gas will be cheap again.
I chalk up my misinterpretation to commenting at 6:30pm after being up till 7:30am the night before.
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Shelby, dude, I meant that most Americans don’t want the smartest motherfuckers in the room (see, e.g., current President), NOT that they didn’t think these guys were the smartest MFITR. Sorry, I didn’t realize it could be misinterpreted till you commented. Chalk it up to commenting at 8:30 a.m. after not enough sleep.
Anyway, I never said I would quit trash-talking the American public.
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Paula, didn’t you say you were going to quit trash-talking the VP nom? And I thought it was the old white-haired guy who couldn’t keep his trap shut!
And MotS, if you have any choice first-hand observations of Biden’s intellect in action to share, I’d love to hear them — after you elucidate your superior academic credentials. Bush went to Yale, does that make Bush > Biden?
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What exactly do you mean by “Southerner” RD? Do only states that actually seceded qualify?
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IRE,
Sorry, I’d have to agree with the many commentators on the various networks that have looked at the ticket ans said “its backwards”.
Which hey, now that we know the VP, and it’s someone decent, I can support Joe Biden as VP in November.
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RD: Quite frankly that Biden>Obama line is bullshit in so many ways.
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I stole it this morning. With a hap tip!
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Ooh, this is begging for a T-shirt.
Can we at least steal it for blogs, etc.?
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Biden > Obama.
I don’t think the ticket is as amazing as some make it out to be, however, we can’t change who’s at the very top, so, we’re stuck with what we’ve got. Biden makes up for some of Obama’s weaknesses. Biden will make a great attack dog and he isn’t afraid to speak his mind.
However, I think Obama has given up GA and MS. Without a Southerner on the ticket, those states are out of reach. Biden will help Obama in Ohio and Michigan, so I guess it evens out.
Now, if McCain picks Slimer, then, well GA and MS might come back into play, though Michigan will be competitive. If McCain picks Huckabee, then my original statement stands.
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I like Obama and Biden a lot, but don’t be ridiculous. Biden is knowledgeable but not amazingly bright. Didn’t he go to Syracuse for law school? Anyway, I think we open the door up to problems when we go down this road. Bide3n certainly has his academic and intellectual skeletons.
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oh catherine, sadly this feeling is not shared by most americans. sigh.
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