CNN story here.
Caveat, Recall now that this was 1984 too. Cheers, JMP
Yeah missed out on the GTA reference, but other than that the entire movie was pretty screwy. I mean why CO? You’d might as well just target Cheyenne Mt. with a good cluster of MT size warheads, and the rest of the state is pretty much not worth the bother.
“The Battle of Algiers” is a bit different and was at least inspired by real events. But even it does a short shrift job on all the political developments that eventually led to the end of the war. Including but not limited to one failed assassination attempt on Charles De Gaulle himself and a failed French coup in 1961. And of course it had absolutely nothing to tell us about the 2nd Amendment too. But plenty on the continued nefarious uses for field telly units.
What is going on in the Republic of Georgia right now is tragic. What happened in Colorado those many years ago was heroic. If it wasn’t they would not have erected a monument to those brave young men and women’s memory.
If you are so set on seeing a movie about an insurgency that is NOT based on real events, you should check out “The Battle of Algiers” starring Dustin Hoffman and Warren Beatty.
The crazy thing I’m getting about this is it sounds like the regions of interest have “asked” (I’m not sure who’s doing the asking, but I’m guessing that there has been some kind of equivalent to the Iraqi National Congress working in Moscow on these regions’ behalf) to be liberated by the Russians from their Georgian brethren. The Russians seem to be behaving as if they are defending their territory (driving out the Georgians, but not advancing beyond self-set boundaries) …
Oops, scratch that last bit. It looks like Russia is now going beyond and into the heart of Georgian territory.
Unfortunately, the Pretzel-dent has no moral authority regarding regime change, so I’m guessing there’s not much to slow Putin down.
Although if there was an event to get NATO back together for, this may become it.
Hey J.M.P., I’m pretty sure that “the documentary, Red Dawn”, is a reference to the game Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. Satirical radio broadcasts constantly allude to the red scare, and go so far as to refer to Red Dawn as a documentary. Considering that MotS made the same reference in the other post, I’m pretty sure he’s being facetious.
It may be a right wing fantasy, but it’s also a classic “underdog defeats ‘the man'” story. People CAN make a difference. Never give up. Believe in your values.
It just happens to involve a lot of killing. Which is the right wing part. But that’s what you gotta do to increase your chances of making money for a movie.
There’s a slippery slope out there: Does fantasy shooting relieve our frustrations and make it less likely we will ACTUALLY shoot something? Or does fantasy shooting make it “OK”, or at least tolerable?
I suppose both are true.
I enjoyed the discussion here on this topic as I’m pretty ignorant about eastern europe.
As far as these absurdist hollywood fare films, I like the spoof on them in Michael Moore’s Canadian Bacon.
I really do think that a handful of border patrol guards could take over Canada, too.
For more on Red Dawn, I refer you to this previous BfD entry: http://www.blogfordemocracy.org/2007/06/wolverines.html
The only ‘source’ I could find on this dreck was a Wiki that merely suggests Al Haig had a hand in the fantasy. The father of some of the neo-cons. So yeah. Let’s just say about the same level of ‘serious RW intel’ that gave us the non planning for the Iraq war. So I’m hoping MoS comments were ‘tongue in cheek’. Complete & utter fantasy. And funny at the time. Like Reagan telling us the Sandinistas were a ‘day’s drive away from TX’. Yeah, right.
So silly. And then tried ‘over there’ in SW Asia where it became tragic. Saddam was not an immediate threat to US Nat Security either too. ‘Nuff Said. Cheers, JMp
MoS ‘The documentary Red Dawn?!’ I’m sorry guy, but any movie with Patrick Swayze, Charlie Sheen, Lea Thompson, Jennifer Grey & Harry Dean Stanton is not now, Nor was it ever a Documentary. It was a directors right wing wet dream, and was understood as such at the time.
There’s also absolutely no way it could have ever happened. Cuba would need a sea lift capacity to move their then & now aging & vintage equipment, (no one else remotely had any in real numbers down South), and if the Soviets were to do it, it would have to have an airlift capacity (for the tanks & big guns) they Never had. Hence my remarks at the start of the thread.
So it is & remains a favorite right wing Fantasy. And again given the fact that the brutal Russian bear does indeed go hunting for land & resources about once or twice a decade like clockwork, we had a chance many times to actually Do something about it, but failed repeatedly. The fantasy comes from a wish fulfillment on the part of the Right Wing, that if only the Russians would attack us directly, Then & only then could we finish them off. And it would Finally ‘show them liberals just how dangerous all their silly ideas of glasnost & gun control really are!’ It was a direct media precursor to those famous mavens of hate radio that now infest the AM dial like so much cockroaches.
And not to put too fine a point on this BS movie, but ‘a coalition of Marxist forces’& revolutionaries South of the border? Also a complete fantasy. It misunderstands the complete foreign policy dynamics of the region, then & now. You’d have to organize a cohesive Fighting force from between several Warring neighbors! How was that going to be possible? Contras (our Hessian stand ins) were based in Honduras and fighting in El Salvador. And there were violent border skirmishes weekly there.
So this was 1984 guy. We were already fighting Several proxy wars in Central America at the time, (Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala), and we’d NEVER faced a single ‘rebel tank’. All of it was small group actions, against mainly civilians. We helped to kill at least 150K mostly innocent indigenous Indians in Guatemala alone in their long & brutal Civil War.
And the Old USSR was going Broke at the time too. Who was going to pay for all this fantasy BS? An invasion Costs money. At the time the USSR was slowly starving for want of investment and production. If only like the Iraq’s we ‘could hang on’ as a fighting guerrilla force for 7 years, they’d be of course be Finished & fully bankrupted by then (1991, recall).
So yeah, MoS. Red Dawn was & is Decidedly NOT a documentary. A Right Wing Fantasy. And no, your shotgun or handgun is no match for a well trained, well equipped infantry man. Even Geo. Washington understood that. But that’s a story for another day.
And no Catherine, I’d never think of all this ‘stuff’ on my own blog. And besides, no one would read it either! Cheers, JMP
@ JM Prince. Had you studied the original source material that provide the basis for the documentary Red Dawn, you would know the invading force pictured above was not Russian, but a coalition of the willing including many Cuban soldiers, and, likely other Marxist revolutionaries from South of the Border. Judging by their fur coats, those pictured above look like Zapatistas.
Looks like it time for JMP to get his own blog…
In case anyone thought I was kidding about the prospect of ever more ‘war profiteering’, this from Think Progress will suggest some avenues to explore:
[McCain's chief foreign policy 'expert], Randy Scheunemann Helped U.S. Firm Win Georgian Energy Deals While Lobbying For Georgia‚Äôs NATO Membership¬ª
Earlier today, Russia sent troops into a breakaway region of Georgia ‚Äúafter Georgian troops sought to enter the capital of the pro-Russian enclave.‚Äù As Matt Duss noted at the Wonk Room, the invasion ‚Äúraises some questions about how a McCain administration might deal with a crisis like this,‚Äù particularly because his top foreign policy adviser ‚Äî Randy Scheunemann ‚Äî has spent a number of years lobbying on behalf of Georgia and has publicly taken strong pro-Georgia, anti-Russia positions.
Last May, USA Today reported that Scheunemann‚Äôs lobbying firm, Orion Strategies, represented Georgia between 2003 and March 2008 and that Scheunemann himself lobbied McCain‚Äôs Senate staff on behalf of Georgia while working for McCain‚Äôs presidential campaign.
Also, freelance journalist Lindsay Beyerstein reported last month that Scheunemann serves as Worldwide Strategic Energy‚Äôs (WSE) point man on Georgia, helping the energy firm score deals with the Georgian government to assist in the development of its ‚Äúhydrocarbon industry.‚Äù From a WSE internal document obtained by Beyerstein:
Randy Scheunemann is a registered representative of the Government of Georgia in the United States. Accordingly, Mr. Scheunemann has developed a very close relationship with President of Georgia Mikheil Saakashvili and many senior Georgian officials. The WSE team has also begun negotiating possible deals with the Georgian state-run oil company, National Oil Company of Georgia, to assist in the development of Georgia‚Äôs hydrocarbon industry.
So what then does Scheunemann do on Georgia‚Äôs behalf? He tries to get U.S. politicians on-board with Georgia‚Äôs full membership into NATO. In fact, he has had success with at least one Member of Congress, Sen. John McCain:
In 2005, Mr. Scheunemann asked Sen. McCain to introduce a Senate resolution expressing support for peace in the Russia-influenced region of South Ossetia that wants to break away from Georgia, the records show. [‚Ä¶] The Senate approved Sen. McCain‚Äôs resolution in December 2005.
Sen. McCain has endorsed Georgia‚Äôs goal of entering NATO, a matter for which the country hired Mr. Scheunemann to lobby. In 2006, Sen. McCain gave a speech at the Munich Conference on Security in Germany in which he said Georgia should enter NATO.
According to Beyerstein, WSE‚Äôs internal document ‚Äúwas circulated to prospective investors in 2007,‚Äù and as USA Today noted, Scheunemann did not stop lobbying on behalf of Georgia until March 2008, but ‚Äúhe remains a principal at his lobbying firm, which still has Georgia as a client.‚Äù In fact, Scheunemann ‚Äúhad a phone conversation in November  about Georgia with Richard Fontaine, an aide in McCain‚Äôs Senate office.‚Äù
Helping a U.S. energy firm secure lucrative contracts with the Georgian government while lobbying American politicians for the former Soviet Republic‚Äôs NATO membership? As Duss noted, trying to play an honest broker in the growing Russia-Georgia crisis would prove to be more complicated than meets the eye for a McCain administration.
Indeed, Politico notes today that McCain took a harder line on Russia on its invasion of Georgia than the Bush administration did.”
Old habits die hard. Now look for the Bush’s involvement with funding the Nazi industrial machine during WW11. That’s no lie either. But still covered up to this day. But hey, no BJ’s were involved, so it’s OK!
AW shucks! Rednecky forgot to take his meds with his cornbread again.
Thank you for the eloquent explanation, Prince.
Yep Zaid. Ugly & Nasty sort of stuff. And of course if you’re old enough, it’s sort of Act XXVII. My point was that the movie (Red Dawn, 1984) was a Reaganite period piece almost at the height of the Cold War, and we were all supposed to be shaking under our beds from waiting ‘for the Russians to come’. It was & remains some of the silliest tripes & tropes of the period.
The Cold War is & remains serious stuff. The movie really never was. This despite the prior generations of Checks, Hungarians, Poles etc who Did get their teeth kicked in (and obviously far, far worse) just questing for freedom or even just a ‘kinder face’ for socialism after WW11. When they dared to challenge the might of the Soviet empire, the tanks invariably rolled, and we issued the inevitable ‘stern diplomatic rebukes’ amid the carnage & murder.
SSDD. Rinse & repeat with the latest Soviet era dictator, Putin (and his hand picked successor), who Bush personally told us was a man ‘with a good heart’. They’re still buds despite it all after all these years. That’s the language of power. Former KGB Col and known autocrat grabs power, Bush then anoints him as a ‘friendly’ after a short meeting where Putin talks kindly about the Russian Orthodox Church. He still does BTW. And he’s still a dangerous bloodthirsty dictator, as ever.
But we were all too busy recovering from the Last ‘panty sniffing’ episode (Clinton’s) to actually notice much. But these things Do have consequences. Yes, getting cozy with dictator’s always has some really unfortunate consequences. But almost never for the elites in America. Not for the Bush’s or Cheney’s, they’ll make money off of this war, as they have in others.
Not funny, but still tragically true. Cheers, JMP
Aww sh*t Zaid, really? When did this start? Wow, thanks for bringing this to my attention! I had no idea! Quick question, is there anything you or I could do, personally, to stop such an atrocity? Are you doing anything other than bringing awareness to that?
I don’t mind a little bit of humor, but consider that there are people being mutilated by cluster munitions, run over by tanks, and being shot down by small arms fire as you read this.
OK I’ve always wanted to ask this. But why are those Mexicans posing in front of that sorry BMP Looking thingy at Micky D’s??
And no, the Soviets never had the airlift capacity to pull it off then or now. But next door? They can & often do. Cheers & Good Luck, JMP