Rick Warren does King Celebration

Comments

14 responses to “Rick Warren does King Celebration”

1. 

   Jules

   December 23, 2008

   Perhaps someone showed Warren a copy of that tape (Lowery-calling out Bush) cause his church has removed “some” of it’s homophobic language from it’s website. ( sorry no link-you all use teh google)

   I can’t help but think Saddleback Church would make a wonderful name for a gay bar.. sorry it makes me giggle just thinking about it, maybe The Eagle should have “saddleback nights”.

2. 

   Decaturguy

   December 23, 2008

   In the other thread on this someone tried to dismiss the criticism by saying it wasn’t important enough, and here someone seems to be trying to dismiss it by saying that your criticism has to be perfect or don’t bother. Neither argument is convincing.

   I’m really trying to let this go, but I must respond. First of all, I’m not saying that anyone’s criticism of Warren is not important or should be dismissed. All I’m attempting to say is that when you do criticize him, and you do so because of where he is speaking (this time at a MLK event), but you gloss over all the other hypocricy of the folks who will be there (including certain members of the King family) then your criticism loses a little bit of credibility.

   Lets remember that this is the same King family who decided to have Coretta’s funeral, a woman who passionately spoke in favor of gay rights, at Eddie Long’s church a couple of years ago and allowed him to preside over the ceremony.

   Therefore, my initial point was that given all of this history, to single out Warren for hypocricy over his views about gay rights and speaking at a King event, yet not mention all the other stuff, seems like you have a grudge, and weakens your overall argument.

   My preference is to accept his presence there, and try to use the opportunity to influence his and others views, much the same way that Rev. Lowery did at Eddie Long’s church the day of Coretta’s funeral.

   But I’m not criticizing the approach of others on this. Just my preferance.

3. 

   JerryT

   December 23, 2008

   I agree Ruby. I’m just sayin’ it’s not hypocritical to call out one example of injustice but not another. We all do what we can.

   In the other thread on this someone tried to dismiss the criticism by saying it wasn’t important enough, and here someone seems to be trying to dismiss it by saying that your criticism has to be perfect or don’t bother. Neither argument is convincing.

4. 

   Rubyduby

   December 23, 2008

   I don’t know why Decaturguy is trying to turn Rick Warren coming to speak at the King Celebration and the ensuing criticism of such into a black/white thing – clearly it should simply be ‘a bigot of gigantic proportions coming to speak where he most certainly would not be welcome if Mama King were still alive’ kind of thing. I could care less what color Rick Warren is, his heart is a black hole, completely devoid of tolerance and that’s really all I meant.

   When I mentioned Bernice King yesterday, I was trying to point out our very own homegrown hate (and also to point out the situation where a direct descendant of MLK, Jr. actively preaches against what he stood for).

   To try to answer Jerry, I agree that we can’t fight every battle every time, but I also think we have a responsibility to ourselves and our community (be it the GLBT community, the progressive community, etc.) to call out bigots for the whole world to see whenever we get a chance and we most certainly have a chance to pile on this flaming bag of dog poo (the Right Reverend Rick) when he comes to town in January.

   I most certainly do not agree with the invitation for him to give the invocation at the inauguration, but then again I don’t agree with there being an invocation at the inauguration at all. That being said, since he accepted the invitation, he now needs to accept the criticism that comes with it from every person who is opposed to his version of religion (be they black, white, red, green, etc…). Will he change his mind? No way, that would be bad for business, but at least the people who are opposed to him get a chance to voice that opposition. Here. On this blog. And everywhere else on the intertubes.

5. 

   Smitty

   December 22, 2008

   who was looking for “shocked and outraged”? I bet Bernice, Eddie, Creflo, and whole bunch might be there as well – so go ahead and get your protest on.

6. 

   Decaturguy

   December 22, 2008

   Nice Smitty. Way to raise the level of the conversation.

   I stand by my statements. How can I be shocked and outraged by Warren, when Bernice King will be there as well?

7. 

   Smitty

   December 22, 2008

   Massa Decaturguy,

   I is just gonna sit right over here from now on until you tell me what white folks I’m allowed to criticize. Lordy Bee, I must have bumped my head on that ol’ tree in the field. I apologize for my uppity words cuz I know as a black person that I’m only allowed to call out my own kinfolk.

   Now I do know that there are some black preacher folk who don’t speak good of the gay folks, but what you need remember is that Dr. King spoke highly of everyone. But, this fella Rick Warren he sho’ nuff don’t like the gay people. So I guess I wuz just trying to show the hypocrisy (that sho’ nuff is a big word) of how that Rick fella can speak on behalf of Dr. King when Dr. King preached day and night about equality of all folks.

   Now I’m a gonna go back in the field until Massa Decaturguy tells me when I can speak not so highly of the white people.

8. 

   JerryT

   December 22, 2008

   I don’t understand the question. Is it that if we are going to criticize someone, we have to criticize EVERYBODY who does the same thing?

   I know we’re all supposed to fight injustice wherever we find it, but we can’t ALL fight EVERY BIT of injustice ALL THE TIME. I think we are allowed to pick examples that are more meaningful to us some times. Besides, it’s not like this is the US Justice Department. it’s just a blog.

   Is criticism of white people only legitimate when it comes from white people? Are Latino’s not allowed to speak about discrimination at the hands of white people? How about straight people? No criticism of straight people by gay people?

9. 

   Rubyduby

   December 22, 2008

   Oh, I just want to be clear about Rick Warren. I don’t wonder why he’s being singled out. He’s being singled out because he is a hot topic right now and that’s fine. I happen to believe in my little heart of hearts that he’s one of the biggest pieces of excrement to ever grace this state’s presence (and that truly is saying something). But my little semi-logical mind tells me that he’s just another charlatan taking the sheeple for all they aren’t worth and then some and if they are stupid enough to fork over their money and blindly follow this snake oil salesman cum religious ‚Äúleader,‚Äù then they really do deserve their places in their own private Idaho.

   But then again, I don’t particularly have a very nice opinion on any of these megachurch ministers. Ya know, Bezerko went to high school with Creflo…

10. 

    Decaturguy

    December 22, 2008

    Smitty,

    I think that Rubyduby and MOS appropriately answered your question about why I said what I said. Rick Warren will not be the only minister who will be there on Jan 19 who does not support gay equality.

    We just wonder why you’re singling out Warren. Is it because he’s white?

11. 

    Mouth of the South

    December 22, 2008

    Agreed, we all seem to accept MLK’s life and legacy as leading toward acceptance and openness, but there are many who do not share that view close to home. “Bishop” Eddie Long was super fun about that in 2004, along with Bernice King. I don’t think we can call out Warren and his Porpoises without at least mentioning that his views go over quite well with many of the cloth in his audience.

12. 

    Rubyduby

    December 22, 2008

    Hi all, I would like to reiterate the question Decaturguy asks, not because the original poster is an African-American, but because several local black ministers enjoy quite a high profile during the King Week celebration of Dr. King’s life and legacy and yet they preach hate and intolerance instead of the civil rights for all that Dr. King, and later in life his widow, called for.

    For example, in 2004, their youngest daughter, Bernice King, participated in a march against same-sex marriage in Atlanta. This is directly against what her mother, Coretta Scott King, and her older sister, Yolanda King, worked for. Both were very outspoken supporters of gay rights saying that gay rights are a civil rights issue.

    Why should we take certain people seriously, i.e. the black ministers and in particular Rev. Bernice King, when it seems that they only want to trade in on the legacy of a man who worked tirelessly for what these people are so adamantly against – that being civil rights for all people? If I am reading the schedule of events correctly, this is a day to celebrate Dr. King’s birthday as a national holiday and to act on “his teachings and principles of nonviolence and human rights.” Do these ministers that are so quick to jump on the King legacy bandwagon when the cameras are rolling not believe that gay people are human and deserve the same rights are heterosexuals? Do these ministers who are so quick to scream for equal rights when it benefits them not think that black gays and lesbians deserve equal rights too? Equal rights for everyone are just that – equal rights for everyone. They can’t just pick and choose.

    I have a hard time with the hypocrisy and I really want someone to ask them these questions and I want them asked every day, not just on a Monday in January.

13. 

    Smitty

    December 22, 2008

    “Are you going to call out the African American ministers who preach homophobia” – I’m not even sure how to even answer this question. Are you asking this question because the author of the post is also African-American or are you asking this question to open up another line of debate?

14. 

    Decaturguy

    December 21, 2008

    Are you going to call out the African American ministers who preach homophobia on a weekly basis at their churches that will no doubt be in attendance and have participatory roles in this service?

    Remember, if were only white religious Christians who supported Prop 8, it would not have passed, and the Georgia marriage amendment would have been a lot closer than 75-25.