Good call, Melanie. Saturday just cannot get here soon enough...

So can we remove "democracy" from this blog now?

IRE, how many times must this be said: there are only 2 people that pay for the monthly bandwidth and daily operations of this blog. This isn't a DPG sponsored blog. This blog is a courtesy gift from 2 very nice and wonderful Democrats. So they make the rules, can change the rules, can ban unfriendly guests, and delete rude comments. This is their piece of the blogosphere world and they have invited you and everyone else in.

If you don't want to play by their rules then stop visiting their site. No one is forcing you to stay. Keep on surfing, dude.

I know that but, how is this democratic?

Is "civility" by definition "undemocratic"?

you can disagree and still be civil. THe problem i have is that this is a direct attempt to censor conversation about the chairmanship of the DPG which is really important as i think weall know, and the editors of this blog have clear favorites in the race. Last time i checked, censorship is not democratic.

IRE, once again if one pays for a blog then one can do damn well what they like.

Here's a starting point for you: http://www.blogger.com/start - it's free. Put up your own blog site and rip on every candidate for chairmanship for the DPG. Some people may read it and others may just surf around it. The blogosphere is big, baby, go ahead and claim your own slice of it.

...or state why you support a certain candidate over the one supported by the blog owners. Build up your candidate and his/her platform rather than tear down your opponent. Our legal system is based on advocacy of opposing points of view. Shouldn't our political system be similarily based?

It stopped being a "civil" "conversation" around the time the tone stopped being "I don't think such-and-such strategy is the way to go" and started being "I think so-and-so is a self-serving conniver and his friends are sleazeballs", and if the owners of this blog are sick of their site being used as a platform for this kind of cowardly sniping, fine by me. This isn't characterassassinationfordemocracy.com, now is it?

No look, I don't care if people rip on another candidate, this is politics, if you dont like it dont get involved. My point is, its not really democratic to not allow people to say things about certain candidates.

And it is also a bad idea. Think of it this way imagine BforD like XYZ for chair. turnsout XYZ does something illicit or is a republican or anything else. No one would be allowed to mention that. There is probably a good number of people who are getting their opinions on the chair just from this website. Shouldn't we allow the democratic principal of free discussion?

And this "civility" talk is just a guise for weakness IMO. You think republicans will ever be "civil" to us and do you think we can win by being "civil" in response? As i end, let me say i understand that we don't want "incivility" within our party, fine that's good i respect that. But our chair or candidates are going to have to face it sooner or later and this is a way of toughening them up.

I get the feeling that we are "kicking a dead horse" here. Look...if you want to answer their incivility with some of your own, so be it. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. What we are trying to accomplish here is to transform politics. What percentage of the people in this country vote? Do you think they really "get into" all the mudslinging and dragging folks through the dirt? Don't we have a responsibility to raise the level of political discussion? Let's give them something different. Let's not treat them like the "American Idol"-watching folks they might be, but like voters who as thirsting to be informed.

Yes...I say again...I plead guilty of being an idealist, but if we don't take the highground, who will? Our message is clear and strong. If someone has something constructive to bring to the political discussion, then bring it. If someone doesn't have something constructive to bring, then go vote however you like, but keep it to private. Add to the level of discussion, don't drag it down.

So by that argument we could have condoned Greg Hecht's debased attacks on Jim Martin as "toughening him up". I hope you're not willing to accept that sort of "debate".

"There is probably a good number of people who are getting their opinions on the chair just from this website." - so we fault the owners of the site instead of people that are too lazy to research and form their own opinions. As Mel clearly states "If you have a problem with something a candidate has said or done, you can contact the candidate directly."

Intelligence and free will are components of democracy and civility.

Modern life means democracy, democracy means freeing intelligence for independent effectiveness - the emancipation of mind as an individual organ to do its own work
John Dewey

Benson,

Are you that naive? I don't think so. Hecht's campaign worked to get rid of Hecht. So it would seem to be a cautionary tale.

Smitty,

It would seem you think the average person too lazy to be a part of any actual discussion. Very negative.

When I talked with Mel on Saturday, she lamented not having a place, a safe place, where Democratic bloggers could go and talk. Ironic in retrospect.

I would rather see some form of moderation and filtering than a "turn my back" position. Otherwise, I'll just comment somewhere else about the lazy people over at B4D. Lazy in that they don't want the difficult job of providing an open forum for Democrats and would be Democrats.

Mad Dog

Let me start this with one caveat - RIF - Reading is Fundamental.

I stated that "so we fault the owners of the site instead of people that are too lazy to research and form their own opinions." I clearly did not state nor do I even understand how Mad Dog came to such a conclusion that I "think the average person too lazy to be a part of any actual discussion."

If anyone forms an opinion from just one single source and it is not from the original souce, i.e. directly from the candidate, then they are LAZY!! Plain and simple. You get the representation you deserve when you choose not to do your own homework. Whether its voting for President, State House, or even DPG Chair.

"In true democracy every man and women is taught to think for himself or herself." - Mohandas K. Gandhi

"Democracy encourages the majority to decide things about which the majority is ignorant." -John Simon

"Don't go too nuts on the "intellectual" angle before basic reading comprehension is mastered." - odinseye2k

No Benson I don't because I don't think Martin was ever tough, and I don't say that as a bad thing.

Jim Martin is tough. As a politician, I'm sure it was tough to take the high ground at the risk of being unfairly characterized as wimpy. Civility IS Strength.

Speaking of naïve, do any of you think for a split second that I couldn't use this blog to rip the heads off about half of the candidates running if I were so inclined? Do you think Bernita couldn’t? Or Catherine? Or Benson? Do you know us at all?

This isn’t about using this blog to shill for the candidates we support, or about censoring “debate”. It’s about (among other things), dumping the scum that comes here for the sole purpose of dropping junk in the comments. These are people who NEVER comment here, but now find this blog a convenient channel for their spew. That’s the height of laziness. They are parasites. More than that, they are an embarrassment to the Democratic community.

Get it straight. This is for the benefit of ALL candidates, some of whom have over zealous supporters that are too dumb to realize negative attacks only reflect back on the object of their affection. Transparently so.

This is also about doing what is most helpful to the community, about giving candidates a chance to connect with voting members, and giving SCM the space and peace to make up their own minds. Finally, it's also about not driving away readers who couldn’t care less about this race.

A moratorium on negative comments will only upset those who planned to spend the week engaging in attacks. Good luck with that and apologies to no one.

I think Kos says it best. Just apply his logic to the DPG race:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/18/13451/3998

Smitty,

"There is probably a good number of people who are getting their opinions on the chair just from this website." - so we fault the owners of the site instead of people that are too lazy to research and form their own opinions." That's your words.

"It would seem you think the average person too lazy to be a part of any actual discussion. Very negative." Those are mine.

Now just add to those comments the censorship or moratorium on this blod and that the election for officers is a 50+ 1 ... so you think I might misinform your lazy majority or not?

Will I need to remind you of contextual implications again?

Or do you still think that a five way race (to be determined by a 50%+1 majority) can be won or lost by keeping 'lazy' state committee members from reading 'misinformation' posted on the internet...?

It would seem ... you have a very high opinion of the internet for spreading information and a very low opinion of people elected at the county level for state office.

So if I have put a puzzle together and created a different solution than you intended, clarify what you said in the situational context.

Mad Dog, I'm going to type this really slow so that you understand my one and only point: If anyone forms an opinion from just one single source and it is not from the original source, i.e. directly from the candidate, then they are LAZY!!

That is the situation and the context. You can apply my statement to any environment.

Apparently you and IRE are not State Committee Members because if you guys were then you would a) have received a call from at least one or more of the candidates whereby you had a chance to ask any pertinent questions, b) and/or you would have received one of the 900 emails that they have been sending, c) and/or you would have received a letter or information package via the US Postal service, d) and/or you would consult another SCM and ask their opinion of the candidates prior to or after believing what is reported in the blogosphere. and most importantly, e) you would be glad for the moratorium and could not wait for Saturday just so this part of the circus would end and we can get about the business of kicking some Republican butts.

Information is the key to life.

As Mel stated the moratorium is to stop the haters who do not have a vote in the process nor have received any communications directly from the candidates such that they are posting uninformed and nasty comments to show their support for their chosen candidate. If they really want their opinions heard then they should contact their county's SCMs.

Just to be snarky: Mad Dog, you state "you have a very high opinion of the internet for spreading information and a very low opinion of people elected at the county level for state office." - where did you get your situational analytical skills from? What does this have to do with anything I have stated? How can you even come to this conclusion? You scare me -- a lot! Hope you don't work for any governing or deciding body.

In general, I have a low opinion of anyone that waits around for others to do their work - elected officials, candidates, or the average voter. Never been a "riding coattails" or "jump on the bandwagon" kind of person. That bandwagon has a funny way of crumbling when too many clueless riders are on board.

Never fear y'all. The way I read it, you can resume your negative, Dem-bashing, rumor-mongering next week! You can make it! Just hold on a little while!

Okay...so now instead of bashing candidates we have turned on ourselves? Is it any wonder why we, as progressives, are having such a difficult time seizing the reins? Folks...the window of opportunity is open. If we can stick to developing a message through dialogue (CIVIL dialogue) and debate, our moment has arrived. If we can't show our desire to give all a voice in positive discussion, do you think the "other side" will let that window stay open for ever? Social Security, health care, alternative energy, non-aggressive foreign policy, fair immigration...the issues for dialogue and concensus are there. All we have to do is seize them.

Smitty,

So the one and only source is the candidate?

Or, the candidate's email?

Or, the candidate's webpage?

So, for you, it's a party of one?

So, public documents would be a No-NO?

So, discussion of sources EXCEPT the candidates mouth, would be a No-NO?

So, in your world, Clinton never had sex with that woman?

So, in your world, Nixon was "not a crook?"

So, in your world, Saddam had massive stockpiles of WMD?

So, in your world, Saddam helped with the 9/11 attacks?

So, in your world, one person has 'told' you everything you need to know and everyone else is lazy?

Smitty,

Think before you type slow.

Mel,

Censorship is ripping everyone. The worst thing that you can do to another person is to ignore tham.

You're going to have to work much harder and more effectively if you want to be a blogger that leads opinions.

Right now, by blaming the "haters" and by admitting you've lost control of message, you've weakened yourself and harmed the credibility of this blog.

You've tried to be an opinion leader. Now you're just tired of it all. It's too much of a burden.

Just let the candidates stand alone?

I suggest you get back in the fight by doing independent research on the negatives. Is somebody lying about a specific candidate? Prove it.

Is somebody telling the truth? Support it with documents.

You'll earn a lot more credibility by saying you're wrong when you're wrong than by shutting down and waiting for a second chance.

It's about substance, not perception.

C'mon folks..you are taking this to the extreme.

This blog is not 'public domain' it is owned and operated by private citizens who also happen to be political activists.

The DPG elections have gotten pretty nasty. I've thrown a couple of elbows myself. I believe the intentions here to limit negativity and lies heading into the election are spot on.

You know, most newspapers do not print Letters to the Editor 1 week before elections for some of the same reasons that were pointed out by Mel.

Let's look at the big picture for a second. Regardless of who wins on Saturday. Activists and have had an impact on a position that has never been open even to discussion in the past.

Mad Dog - You choose not to provide your email address so I will have to tell you this publicly:

The tone of your comments is unwelcome. You've only made 5 comments here (in your current incarnation and from your current IP address) so you do not qualify as a "regular". It would appear that your goal is to come here now to influence the DPG elections in some way.

Say good things about any of the candidates you favor. Just steer clear of the negative stuff and you'll be free to post here all you'd like. Even become a "regular".

Think of it this way: Mel and Catherine have invited you into their parlor for a nice afternoon of conversation and company. Being Fine Southern Ladies, they have offered you tea and cakes, and generally tried to make you feel welcome. However, even Fine Southern Ladies have limits to their hospitality. So, wipe your boots before you enter, keep the cursing to a minimum, use a coaster on the coffee table, and respect the hostesses when they politely try to change the subject. I'm sure your Mama taught you as much.

But, if you'd rather not abide by the house rules, feel free to go find an empty street corner with a soap box on it. Yell all you like. It's a free country, after all. But don't expect any tea cakes.

"You're going to have to work much harder and more effectively if you want to be a blogger that leads opinions."

No thanks. No one here has any such aspirations.

"I suggest you get back in the fight by doing independent research on the negatives. Is somebody lying about a specific candidate? Prove it."

Again, I'll pass. I've done my research. Everyone else can do the same.

Here's an idea Mad Dog, since you seem to know so much about how successful blogs should be run, by all means open a thread on your blog and see how it goes. I'll even link to it.

As I said, only those who want to do some playa hatin this week will take issue with this.

Really, the more I think of this the better I like it. We can all go drop big steaming piles at your place and you can "try a little harder" and spend the week sorting it all out. That is of course provided you a) take any responsibility for what is published under your name and b)don't have a job.

Since the last entry you published was in June, it's time for an update don't you think? Come on Mad Dog, are you a player or a spectator? Blogger or troll?

Which is it?

PaulaG - It's like inviting someone to your house and they start knocking over your furniture as soon as they get in the door.

no its not like any of those examples, its about engaging in the democratic process (which i thought the blog that is intended for democracy would allow).

Oh and Mad Dog, don't forget, the big bro is also keeping tabs on you.

It's time to circle the wagons around all the candidates IRE. Try and keep up with the group and stop whining.

It's a shame we couldn't get this kind of "moratorium" going when Cathy Cox & Mark Taylor were beating the snot out of each other.

Where was this entry the last week of the 2006 Democratic Gubernatorial Primary?

Good point SE. We're a little slow, but we do learn eventually.

Live and learn, serving egos. Live and learn.

Oh, IRE. Sigh. You poor, dear, sweet little thing. Let's see if I can break this down for you. This blog is FOR democracy. That means it supports a democractic form of government. Out there. In the real world. That doesn't mean that this blog IS a democracy. Get it? The map is not the territory, and all that. That means you can't vote on what gets posted (although please feel free to email suggestions!), you can't impeach Melanie and Catherine (although they may wish for it some days), and there is no Bill of Rights for IRE to Say Whatever The Hell He Wants to Say (although I find that Mel and Catherine are remarkably tolerant in that regard) . Even in the most robust of democracies, you can't force a private person or entity to carry your message. That's part of democracy too.

Don't you just hate it when some people have to argue just for the sake of arguing?!?!?

Enough is enough.

Saturday just can't come soon enough.

Oh no, I'm late to the party! Wait wait, I can still unpack my tiny violin...

Go to sleep for a couple of hours and the roaches just come creeping out of the woodwork. Amber, maybe the melodic sound of your violin can keep them at bay.

Not that I want to increase traffic to their stupid site - http://www.gapolitics.net/ but this is the reason why people should not base their opinions from one source, in this case the Internets. Mae, you are a retard! Yes, I said it and I said it very mean.

Your slam about Page Gleason is dumb as hell - have you personally asked Page about your fantasy accusation?

Don't get me started on your complete stupidity about Dr. Constance Burkes. If you were to open an Albany satellite office who else would you get to run it but Dr. Burkes. Who the hell else is doing any work in Albany? Oh you have crazy Fred the trucking maven who has just filed a complaint against her so that he and the WBA (White Boys of Albany) can take over the Dougherty Party now that his son miserably lost the governorship. Do you know the amount of money Dr. Burkes has taken out of her own pocketbook to support Democratic activities in Albany without the assistance of the WBAs or even the local Dem legislation? She's on a fixed income and has poured thousands into doing GOTV activities for all Dem candidates.

Do you ever wonder why you and your friends are never hired to do any substantive political work? It's because you guys can't connect the political dots. You guys prefer to slam Dem activists and not the foolish candidates that you idol as rock stars. Based on your posts it appears that you are still a tool for loser candidates. LOSERS!!

You don't have a vote in the DPG race because you can't even get a vote from your own county party democrats.

If you want to find me it won't be too hard. If you want make any false accusations about me then you better be prepared and come with it strong. Your game better be tight and on point!

Damn cockroaches.

Mel,

I do have up more than one blog. And, the idea of success varies about as much as the ideas on who would make the best DPG Chair.

So if you want to get into a contest over who has the biggest pile of crap to spread. Bring it on!

Everything these poor girls try falls flat on its face. This won't be any exception. It's the losing Taylor crew deja vu.

MD, again I'll have to pass on the crapfest.

Catherine,

I guess some people only blog in response to big events.

Since Billy Joyner introduced me to Mel as "Mad Dog" on Saturday, I've made it a point to join in. I didn't know it was a club for tea cakes and regulars only (who votes me off the island? And, who decides who gets to be a regular?)

I've heard nothing but negatives in the blog sphere about B4G.

Now that I've tasted the tea cakes and seen the censorship, I understand why people think the bloggers here are nuts.

I have an agenda to get the best government possible. Deal with it. Or, ban me.

But don't ever expect me to ask for a collar and a lease.

Mad Dog

Indie,

Big Brother knows where I live and work. So does Big Sister.

To mock Smitty one more time, I'll use a quote.

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself."

Not that I'm at any loss for words.

Thanks for the warning, tho.

MD

Well since you feel that way about it Mad Dog, why don't you just take your ball and go home? Leave us "nuts" in peace so we can get back to our usual nefarious plans of taking over the world.

Wah. Wah.

Now will someone please pass the tea cakes.

Tea cakes. Yum.

Is there liquor at the parties because seriously, I'm going to need a stiff drink to put up with all this bickering.

Kiss kiss, Mad Dog.

Regulars are defined by the frequency and friendliness by which they post. Mel and I get to vote people off the island, with input from the other bloggers here.

We generally welcome everyone who wants to participate in this experiment. We assume that if you find the environment restrictive, unwelcoming, or not your cup of tea, that you will stop coming.

I just went to check out that site I earlier vented about and it surprised me that the owner of that horrible blog is Roger Marietta's daughter. Roger Marietta is a Dem State Committee member. It seems that Roger's daughter's attack on Page failed, but his daughter is publicly blasting the County Chair in the same county that Roger Marietta is supposed to represent at the State Party level. The County Chairperson is also a State Committee member.

Now someone please tell me how this helps with moving the democratic process forward. Mad Dog, this is the crap that needs to be censured and smacked down at the DPG level.

"It's the losing Taylor crew deja vu."

As opposed to the winning personalities behind Cox.

I guess one can't experience deja vu for something that never happened to begin with (losing to Sonny.)

Point taken Pappy.

Hey Mad Dog, I received an email from one of your peeps in North Georgia with her endorsement list. What are ya'll doing up there - starting a revolution? I'm not playa hating. Creative touch.

It's never a good thing when those damn North Georgia Democrats get all organized and stuff :) They might show up on Saturday with yard signs endorsing their favorite candidates, t-shirts, hats, and the whole nine yards. N. Georgia Dems never slack on their Democratic love and don't mind having public Dem lovefests.

Hey Smitty!

We tried getting a formal invite from the rest of you'll. I even tried walking into the middle of the room and humping a couple legs. Rabid animals get no attention unless they darule and bare some teeth.

We're just too country for you citi folkes, I reckon. Have you seen our mule, Victor?

Wait til ya catch up walking around our offices with our shoes off.

Now which set of endorsements did you get? I got one endorsing Sally Rosser for 1st Vice Chair!

Did you see Bev tell me to shut up Saturday morning? Too much Dog in the house, eh?

BTW, the Dog does shut up when Bev says so.

And those stories about me getting lost going back to the Horizon to pick up my car are NOT True! Not True. I was never lost just a mite bewildered for a bit.

As I've said a couple other places, and told you and Mel, it was a good shindig Saturday.

Are we, and no that is not the Royal We, doing any Friday Night welcoming? I'm working on a block of rooms with a special rate for the folks coming from out of town. Put the word out for me? You got my email and phone. Maybe B4D can reach out and help us save us worthless country bumpkins a few bucks at the Motel 5.5?

I should hear a better rate tomorrow. Dang hospitality people don't return phone calls.

So far, a $145 a night is just too much. Can I bring my newspapers and stay at your house?

MD

P.S. I'm big and I'm mean but ain't no way I'm bad enough to be a Washington DC cockaroach.

P.S. P.S. Seriously, kill the censorship and exclusive club formula. That's not my party.

My endorsement email said Sally Rosser for Constitutional Chair. Chile, BfD doesn't have any money to contribute. Now we know to keep Bev around.

The Smitty doesn't have male houseguests unless they are staying for a particular reason...you get my drift...

Smitty,

The Dog got fixed a long time ago. Back to the doghouse for me.

Am I going to get slammed for saying I like Sally Rosser?

Worse yet, is she going to get slammed if I say she recruited me?

Oh, did I stick my handout for money? No, no, no...

I'm not paying to put anyone up in a hotel. Unemployed scum like me ain't got no money.

I'm saying that I'm trying to get a downtown hotel to discount for a group rate. With my great personality and winning ways, no doubt it will be dirt cheap. Knot!

If I get a local price break, I'll 'dump' the details here first.

I don't know about that Sally Rosser woman. Claiming she was all too sick to come to the DPG forum. I think she was just afraid of her competition :)

chat later Mad Dog, gotta go to work. I'm on the 3rd shift at the plant these days.

MelGX, losing Taylor crew as opposed to the winning Cox Crew? okthx.

Go Sally!

Enjoy the work, Smitty. Enjoy.

So do I get to cheer Sally or is my sorry butt still in the Dog House?

What was the name of the song with the lyrics, Ride, Sally, Ride?

MD, you can cheer anyone you like until you're blue in the face. Just no trash talking any of the candidates, k?

See original post.

"From here forward, any negative comment about ANY of the candidates seeking DPG positions will be deleted."

After all,(how did Shipp put it?), we're the "booster club".

Interesting.. 62+ comments later and no minds have been changed, only new nastiness and spew.

I'm rethinking attending, if this is what I can expect from the factions, no real point for me to show up since it's doubtful anyone will be able to work together starting on the 28th.

Melgx, still bitter I see, Melb

Alrighty then. Let's close this one now before Norma's head explodes.